Introduction

Two of a kind

CONTACT

FRAME #2116

SB #2116

Conclusion

 

simplesevens

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history

CONTACT!

In an effort to figure out which was the 'real' SB2116 and also what exactly the other car was, I sent an email to the seller:

My initial message to the Seller:

Hello,
Lotus factory record of the production of Lotus Seven SB2116 indicates a different car than that which you offer. Furthermore, I have spoken with a Lotus Seven owner (registered) who bought Lotus Seven SB2116 in England in 1969, and who still owns it.

Since I would not like to form a definite opinion without hearing your story, may I ask what leads you to believe that your car is SB2116?

It seems to me that your listing ought to be updated to reflect the question surrounding the serial number

Ed McCarroll's reply:

Mr. Donohoe,
My car has been placed on auction honestly with the absolute belief that the ID numbers are authentic and legitimate. The documentation that came with the car shows records that relate to the car as far back as 1982/3. If you can track down any problems I will be delighted to know what they are.

In 1997 I was contacted by a Mr.John W. Watson of the Lotus Seven Club of Great Britain and he wanted to ask for data in order to maintain a Seven register. I sent him what I could and he answered to say that SB2116 was a 1966 car with a Ford 116E engine, Standard axle, delivered to London, England. He was in a bit of a quandry with the engine nos. and frame number and believed the car might be later than the 1966 year.

Anyway the car has been registered as SB2116 for any number of years before I ever bought or saw it. This car was totally redone by Mr. Barnett. If anything goofy happened it was long before my time. California, Colorado, and Ohio seem perfectly happy wth the paperwork associated with the car. All documentation from suppliers, restorers , and others who participated in the car's restoration refer to 1967 Lotus 7. So I am selling a 1967 Lotus 7 on ebay.

If you wish to investigate and can retrieve any information that will shed enlightenment on this situation, I would be appreciative to hear it.

Subject: Lotus 7
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 14:41:44 -0400
From: "EdMcCarroll" <thistle@accesstoledo.com>
To: <johnd@bluepencil.com>

And my response:

Hello Mr McCarroll,

I watch many auctions of "Lotus" Sevens which are not Lotus at all, but are obvious reproductions of one kind or another - those are easy to spot for the average Lotus Seven buyer. What got me excited here was that you have a car which certainly appears to be a "proper" Lotus and have the "numbers" to prove it. Of course, there is another car claiming that number as well... I bought my Seven for fun, but also for the history and heritage. I would not have bought it at any price without confirmation of its Lotus heritage.

Thank you very much for supplying the information. Obviously if there was some mis-registration of the car, it was before your ownership. I hope to be able to amiably share information with you on the question of which is the "real" SB2116, and what the other car is! You may or may not know, that along with the Lotus ID number plate, the genuine Lotus will have a FRAME Number, stamped into the frame by the manufacturer of the frame, and which does not match the Lotus ID number. The frames were manufactured by an outside supplier who used their own numbering system. This FRAME number is usually found stamped into the top side of a frame tube near, or possibly under, the master cylinder bracket at the front edge of the scuttle. The pairing of this FRAME number along with the Lotus ID number is the generally accepted confirmation of a genuine "Lotus" Seven.

My guess is that both SB2116's in question are genuine Lotus Sevens, but that one of them lost its chassis plate at some time, and had it replaced with a number which was guessed at.

Best regards,
John Donohoe

And Ed's Reply:

John, thanks for your assistance. I managed to borrow a digital camera and took a few pictures. I hope these pics. give you enough insight as to what might have happened during the restoration.

Ed's pictures and descriptions appear on the following page...

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